Succession Planning When Family is Involved with Dr. Kevin Mays

Chris Tanke (00:00.086)
This is part two with Kevin Mays of Mays Leadership. And Kevin, I’m excited for the second part of our conversation because now we’re going to be focusing on legacy and succession planning. You know, the truth of the matter is we spend many years building a practice, building a firm, building a business. And at some point, we actually might want to retire or we might want to do something else.

but we’ve been pivotal foundational to this this whole you know enterprise. So if we want to get out you know how do we shake it off how do we do that successfully. And then of course we’ll talk a little bit about what happens if there are family members that are involved as well with that. So so if it’s all right with you I’d like to start with succession planning and in general and it sounds really kind of quaint to say it.

When should a business owner start thinking seriously about a succession plan? Or I would almost want to say, are the tells that a business owner can see that maybe his wife’s been trying to tell him, but the tells that a business owner would say, you know, I think I might want to figure out how to remove myself from this business, sell this business in the next two or three or four or five years. How do you know when my baby, it’s time to give it up?

Dr. Kevin Mays (01:08.986)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (01:26.865)
Well, I wanna take out the two or three or four or five years, forget about the timeframe, because there is one definitive tell that a business owners can start to dial in and pay attention to this without exception. Now I can’t speak to the timeline, but there is one very clear tell that I would love all business owners to start to pay attention to. And that tell is this, do you own a business? If the answer is yes,

then the time to think about succession planning is now. It’s not something you do when there’s two or three or four years left even. I mean, that’s great, that’s transition. But what are you building the business for? Part of it for me, succession planning has to be built into the vision. When you start a business, what are you building it for? Is this a second job? Is this a job that you own or is it a business? Day one, you’ve got to think about as a business owner.

And a business owner’s job is not to be in the business, it’s to own the business. When you are done building this thing, then what? For me, that starts day one. The earlier you start, it’s no different than planting a tree. What’s the best day to plant a tree? 20 years ago. The second best time today. Succession planning is exactly the same. And it doesn’t mean you’re necessarily building a big staff immediately, but having a sense of

what the business looks like when you’re done building it. And I love business owners to build an org chart of the future. Beautiful. 10 years, 15 years from now, what’s the org chart look like? Right now, let’s see what it looks like today, see what it looks like in the future, compare the two, start to understand. Without that clarity, without that succession planning clarity, I find too many business owners facing retirement behind the eight ball. They simply have put nothing in place and now they’re scrambling trying to figure out

in the next two, three, four, five years, what do I do to get out from underneath this thing? And unfortunately, I see a lot of business owners who end up just stepping out of the business and not even selling it, not even passing it on, just closing it. That’s because they didn’t start early enough and thinking about what the succession plan was.

Chris Tanke (03:33.215)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (03:37.992)
Right.

Chris Tanke (03:43.296)
Well, let’s talk to the person that maybe didn’t think that far ahead, so to speak. Right. And they, they think, you know, in about five years, I’d like to be out of this thing. Now, obviously we would have loved to have conversation with them 15 years ago, but they didn’t do it. And, they’ve just been just super busy just building this thing. And, they’re thinking, I don’t want to be frankly tied to it the rest of my life. I’ve got some other things I might want to accomplish, right. The great American novel or whatever.

Dr. Kevin Mays (04:01.639)
with me.

Dr. Kevin Mays (04:07.463)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (04:12.843)
If they’re a little bit behind

Where should they begin now? Because I imagine a lot of people listening to us are going to be a little bit behind. So practically speaking, what do I have to do? What do I to be thinking about? What things might I need to be solving for as I prepare the sale of my business?

Dr. Kevin Mays (04:35.387)
Perhaps I love it. And that’s the question I see a lot of business owners face. Are they just parting out their equipment or are they actually selling a business? And again, it goes back to me for me, goes back to the vision. A business is something that works without you. What’s that mean? are there systems and processes? So it’s never too late to start succession planning, right? Let’s get that clear. Even if you’re selling next year, you can always increase the value of your business. Even when you get it dialed in, you can dial it more in to get a better

get a higher multiple. And that’s based on having a clearly defined market and having a clear niche that you’re driving towards and speaking towards. Having systems and processes in place and not systems and processes that you are implementing, but that you have a team and they’re implementing the systems and processes. And they’re providing value to that specific niche. When you create that,

and you can pull yourself out of the business, that is truly a business. When you can take a two week, four week, six week vacation and it continues to run without you, now you’re in a position to really, and I’ve known some business owners, I helped them get to this point where now they’re just sitting back looking at the numbers. Once a week they look at the dashboard and they can see what the numbers are and help guide the ship even from a distance. But the question is, I go back to what’s the vision?

Do you, it starts with your thinking, with your thinking you create the world. And if you have clarity of what you want that to look like, what do you want your life to look like? What’s the lifestyle you want to create? The legacy you want to create. Why are you doing this thing in the first place? The more you have clarity of that and recognize that it is possible to take your business and to make it something that three, four, five generations from now they’re experiencing the benefit of, it’s possible to do that.

But you have to start with correcting your mindset and get out of the day to day and think of yourself truly as a steward. I love it. I think about real estate in Europe. know, when I travel around Europe, I’ve heard the same story again and again. People will tell me they don’t own the house. They’re just looking after it for for 60 years because the house has been there 500 years and it’s going to be there another 500 more. They don’t own it. They just look after it.

Chris Tanke (06:47.796)
All right

Dr. Kevin Mays (06:56.549)
And the same is true with the business. If we have too much possession of it, it’s ours, it’s mine, man, that gets in the way every time. How do you let it go and let other people bring their heart to it and let it be this thing that stands alone so you can truly be a steward of it. So you can help it move over the next generation and the next generation and the next generation.

Chris Tanke (07:18.76)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. if someone It’s it’s really an amoral thing if someone says, know, I don’t really have that vision. I just want out And I want to get my multiple or whatever the case might be You know that that is the succession plan is is the successful sale with somebody that you know, I’ve set them up Well, it’s they’re repeatable processes. There’s a system in place

Dr. Kevin Mays (07:29.511)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (07:45.322)
A venture capitalists can come in and and and buy it and can Put together a leadership team that understands how it works. And again, they can look at numbers from afar one of the things so let’s talk about the the

Dr. Kevin Mays (07:45.348)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (08:03.038)
I guess the non-personal part of it, if it’s possible. I just wanna sell this thing. I wanna be done with it. I don’t have kids involved with this. It’s been wonderful. I’ve enjoyed the ride, but I really, I’m kinda burned out or I wanna move on. One of the things that you mentioned in preparing this is to be able to have something that’s sellable, have a process, have systems in place that somebody can kinda slide into and then just continue, maybe the team in place.

Dr. Kevin Mays (08:07.015)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (08:31.795)
Can continue to operate it so it’s worth purchasing right? So if it’s all centered around you as the entrepreneur and you take yourself out of the equation Well, somebody that wants to purchase the practice is going to look at that and say wow there goes all the value of it. So purely from a monetary standpoint What can someone do to shore up the offering so that somebody will be willing actually to purchase it? I’ve mentioned some things

Dr. Kevin Mays (08:35.623)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (08:52.967)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (09:00.773)
Something as simple as documentation of policies and procedures can be great. Best practices. To take the wisdom from the organization, the tribal wisdom, out of people’s heads, and to document it into a best practice that anybody else off the street could study, learn, and be able to implement. Then you’re getting some.

But when you have the 40 year veteran who works in the organization who has all the knowledge and it’s not documented anywhere, you really, becomes a detriment. It undermines the business and it certainly doesn’t set it up for the next generation. So it’s probably one of the most important things an individual can do.

Chris Tanke (09:32.584)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (09:42.323)
So, and it’s been said that it takes a little work, but it’s so worth it to go from vapor to paper. Right? So how do we get this, this intuitive knowledge and understanding or whatever the case might be and, systematize it so that someone else can see it and purchase it essentially. And that would be, I bet that’s a big shift for some people that have to make to start thinking in those terms.

Dr. Kevin Mays (09:49.543)
Yes.

Dr. Kevin Mays (09:57.852)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dr. Kevin Mays (10:05.275)
Well, it’s a huge shift, but the thing I love is that often in organizations, right, if you’re not a solopreneur, you have a staff of people who are implementing things, task them with starting to write down each step in the process, because it’s no different than creating a lean process as well to make sure you’re efficient. You have to write down each step and then understand what you’re doing, why you’re doing it. Having that documented is not only good business sense if you want to sell it, but it helps create efficiency and helps.

Maybe you understand where the bottlenecks are. So I think it’s brilliant. And now today with AI technology, you can simply talk into your phone and have AI structure it, organize it, create it into a best practice playbook. And my goodness, what it’ll spit out for you. won’t be perfect, but it’s a good starting point. And it saves a lot of the laborious legwork that we’ve had to do in the past.

It can really jumpstart your ability to create a clear process and a systematic playbook so that somebody else could come in and buy it and understand very quickly out of the case, out of the out of the gate, how to do it. You know, it’s really no different than what you’d have to go through for franchising as well. When you do that, you could franchise, you could sell, you could pass it on to the next generation. But that for me is the definition of owning a business is about a business is this thing that you can step out of.

And that’s because those systems and processes are in place.

Chris Tanke (11:31.058)
That’s right. It can function without you. If you fall out of your tree stand, that’s a very sad thing, but the business continues on. It was designed that way. So, yeah. Yes. And, and again, to me, I, don’t, I don’t have to like be successful to have a good time. I I’m a very simple guy. I’m from, the Midwest to get me up in a tree stand in November. I’m a happy guy. I’ll read my novels. I’ll sip my coffee.

Dr. Kevin Mays (11:34.983)
Noooo

I’m guessing you’re starting to get buck fever, aren’t you? The weather’s getting cool and you’re…

Chris Tanke (11:59.327)
And if venison is provided all the better, if not, I’ve had a great time. So there you go. That’s the Michigan way.

Dr. Kevin Mays (12:05.131)
That’s the Michigan way, isn’t it? mean, it’s just like here in the Midwest, just being in the woods in the fall. And that’s the stuff.

Chris Tanke (12:11.279)
Yeah, so if you all around the. If you’re on the East or West Coast, you don’t get that. I totally understand. I’m not here to convert you, but it is a Midwest thing.

Dr. Kevin Mays (12:19.633)
But I must say though, I think it’s so important as a business owner to start to understand that these are the moments, right? Like you don’t get your life back. And when your life gets swallowed up by your business, because it validates some part of you, or you’ve never developed anything else to do, I’ve known business owners who have nothing else to do, so they stay in their business and they undermine it. It’s like having something else that gives meaning into your life and that you have a passion around.

Chris Tanke (12:42.492)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (12:48.995)
is essential. Otherwise, you just keep doing the same thing. And I think I might have mentioned this last time, you my father working for GM for 35 years. That was the mythos of GM. You put in your 30, 40 years, retire and die. Because you spent your whole life as a slave to this thing, you’ve never developed a life outside of it. Are you working for the business or are you creating a business that’s working for you?

Chris Tanke (13:10.375)
Yeah, well, I

And I have found I do some of my very best thinking around a wood burning stove. So I often will use my, my converted pole barn as, as a, as a retreat and take a sabbatical up there and just stoke the stove and put my coffee on it and warm it up on the stove and just read and think and write. And everybody needs that, that kind of a space as Covey would say that sharpening the saw.

Dr. Kevin Mays (13:25.383)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (13:42.727)
Getting away from it all and because again if you’re you’re you’re not just a business owner There’s so much more to you and if you really want to be successful as a business owner You got to get away from it. You just got to get away from it. Can I ask this question? let’s say I have a succession plan and The succession plan is not a simple one where I sell it and That’s the end of that. But actually I’ve got some kids that are interested in this business been working in it, perhaps

Boy, does it get more complicated because you know business is personal when family is involved. So how do I prepare my kids for assuming or buying into this or whatever? Is there a difference between that and you know, just selling it to folks that are not related to me that want to continue it. Maybe it’s a leadership team that you have, but you’re not related. But what about if it’s personal?

Dr. Kevin Mays (14:42.787)
Isn’t that a huge difference, right? Getting your family involved. It’s so interesting that what I’ve seen done well and not done well when it comes to family business. I’ve seen when the next generation ascends quickly into leadership positions without knowing the business, without having outside experience, without knowing how to lead, but simply because

they’re a family member, I’ve seen it undermine their ability to be successful. I’ve seen families that do it well, sometimes where they’ll require little Johnny to, hey, you’re gonna go out and work two years for another business and learn a different perspective. Where nothing is given, right? And the same kind of meritocracy that makes businesses effective to bring that clarity of expectation into a family business is super important. I think that the clarity of expectation is

Chris Tanke (15:29.221)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (15:43.406)
even more important in a family business. And the understanding that, especially with multiple siblings, that not everybody is going to end up as the president. It can create a lot of dissension, right? But you can’t have four presidents.

Chris Tanke (15:59.524)
Ha

Chris Tanke (16:04.74)
Right. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Yes. And let’s say there is one family member that says, no, no, I want to teach, you know, literature. I don’t want to be involved with the family business. When we when we discuss total family wealth here at Navigating Abundance, we talk about your ledger wealth and your logistical wealth.

and your legacy wealth in your legacy wealth, your family. One of the elements of that is building in family wellness, family wellness, physical, mental, spiritual health, your vocation or calling education. The outcome ultimately is you want fulfillment of every family member, whether they’re involved with the business or not. So how does a driven entrepreneur

that has two out of three kids really excited about the business and carrying on that success and the legacy of the business. How does that business owner let the offshoot child that wants to teach literature know that that’s okay? How does that work?

Dr. Kevin Mays (17:21.713)
Yeah, right. I’m thinking of one particular example of a method that doesn’t work well. I’ve watched it. I’ve watched it very clearly and for me it’s very informative. When this organization had siblings, they were equal owners and as owners they worked in the business. There was no separation between ownership and working in the business.

Chris Tanke (17:29.337)
Okay.

Dr. Kevin Mays (17:50.74)
As an owner, they worked in the business and got a certain share. But what happened then when one person retired out, they were still getting the same share as the brothers who were working and the brother who was working in the business. And it really started to undermine family relationships and cause a lot of frustration and resentment. I’m working and I’m an owner and I’m getting the same same benefit as you who are not working. Doesn’t make sense. So for me, separating to say

as an owner, a family member, here’s what everybody’s getting. And then if you’re a member, if you’re working in the business on top of that, you get a salary. To separate those two, I’ve found can be super effective, right? And to let people have shares as an owner, that’s fair. But when that starts to, when you find folks who are participating or not participating and they’re compensated the same, it can really undermine the family dynamic.

is for sure. I think it’s really important though as you say to let people follow their dreams. Not everybody wants to be in the family business. Fantastic. Go do the thing that you were meant to do on planet earth. I’ve seen when families kind of insist and bring family members in you have people who don’t want to be there and who don’t do the work. Nobody wants to.

Chris Tanke (19:01.153)
Exactly right.

Chris Tanke (19:09.738)
Nobody wins. Nobody wins, including the business owner. If you’re forcing people square pegs into round holes. That’s a real good idea, but it’s commonly tried.

Dr. Kevin Mays (19:14.695)
That’s right.

Dr. Kevin Mays (19:19.399)
What?

Well, and so many times as an owner, the level of excitement and pride we feel about having our son or daughter step in and take over the business, even though they don’t really want to do it, unfortunately, it’s about us. And because we feel good about it and we feel we created a legacy that now they’re carrying on. Most businesses don’t make it to the second generation. A lot of them do, but there’s some things they do in…

they do consistently as a best practice that allows them to do it. And one of the things that does not work is strong arming your offspring to run the business that they really would rather not run. It’s not effective.

Chris Tanke (20:04.567)
Yeah, yeah, that’s self-fulfilling prophecy for sure. If you try to do that, but there is a temptation to try to do that. But, yeah, you know, business owners listening to this, your kids may not be like you. and I I’m going to state the obvious. That might be just fine, but it has to be fine with you. You know, this is about outcomes in your kids to help them to flourish, become all that they want to be. And I.

Dr. Kevin Mays (20:08.303)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (20:31.903)
I don’t mean to get up in your business, but you really need to be honest about that. because if you’re not, not only will they be frustrated, you’re going to be frustrated too. And that’s gonna, that’s not worth anything for have relationships damaged that way. So don’t, don’t do it. let them know that. Warning, warning. I want, I want you son. I want you daughter to be all that you’re meant to be. How can I help you get there? That’s what I want.

Dr. Kevin Mays (20:51.131)
Warning, warning.

Chris Tanke (21:00.915)
than anything. Love to have you join with me but if this is not your thing, what is your thing? And let’s let’s figure that out.

Dr. Kevin Mays (21:08.037)
Now the hard thing is though, imagine if your name is the third and grandpa started the business and dad ran the business, the amount of pressure on you and that we put on our offspring to step up, even if it’s absolutely not what they should be doing or want to do. It’s really, that’s such a hard family discussion to have.

Chris Tanke (21:13.623)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (21:34.588)
To be honest though, I think you’re absolutely right to be honest with ourselves and with each other because just because we’re not honest with each other doesn’t mean the truth isn’t there. So we can try to gloss it over and pretend like it’s not there, but it is. And when we create, we end up going 180 degrees that we want to go by strong arming or forcing or pretending like things are different than they are. We don’t fulfill our legacy. That’s not the way to do it.

Chris Tanke (21:45.131)
Right.

Dr. Kevin Mays (22:04.369)
The way to do it is to be candid, clear, and to address reality as it is in our family.

Chris Tanke (22:04.492)
That’s right.

Chris Tanke (22:11.319)
We talked off camera about the famous quote that facts are stubborn things. I love that. And again, you know, whatever your intention is, and I’m talking to the business owner, I’m talking to the entrepreneur. I’m talking to the go-getter, whatever your, your intentions are, if it’s not right for your children, it’s not right for your children. And you can’t, you can’t make that work.

Dr. Kevin Mays (22:16.411)
Ha ha!

Chris Tanke (22:37.932)
So again, I feel like I’m preaching a sermon. I’m not trying to get down on you. If you’re trying to struggle with this, I’m just saying it’s okay to recognize that, you know, success can be made, meted out in many different ways and it might not be for them through your business. So, man, the greatest thing in the world is to let these, gen two, gen three flourish and to be working on how can we make sure that we increase the odds that they do if they go another path.

If I can switch this just a little bit now Okay, so let’s say I’m a business owner that is really really interested in my legacy Being a passed on and that’s not per se You know that there’s a there’s a picture of me, you know in the front office that everybody pays homage to You know as they come in but more like my values My my ethics

mission. How do how do I prepare for that transfer of legacy to folks, whether they’re my children, or if there are no kids involved with the business, I want this business to live on beyond me. And a lot of us listening, a lot of you listening today, that’s more important than really the valuation you get from the business because you have enough money already. So it’s like, well,

This is my life’s work. How do I make sure it doesn’t die with me?

Dr. Kevin Mays (24:14.887)
What a profound question, right? And how do you do that? And you know, the answer is more simple than a lot of folks think. And it’s staring them right in the face, but so many just don’t see it. It goes back to the systems and processes we talked about. The first, in my mind, most important process is go back to mission, vision, values, to understand why you’re doing what you’re doing, understand what the values are that you uphold in the organization and that you bring to the community.

and to actually write that down and talk about it. And to be able to not just have a plaque on the wall that says what they are, but make it part of the living organism that is the business. I see effective businesses do this. They build it into their the review process and talk about how we’re living the values and consistently recognize that values aren’t, it’s not all or nothing. It’s not a switch we flip, but it’s a directional guidance

of a guidepost that helps us know we’re moving the right direction. And unless you bring it in to the narrative, unless you make a part of the culture, then it’s ringing hollow. It’s empty. I’ve seen organizations that do a great job in training. They put together trainings that help people understand the values in action, behavior based value. It’s not just this idea floating like a cloud in the sky. It’s tethered to the ground. If we’re doing this thing, what’s the behavior?

And I’ve known good family-based businesses that have that so dialed in that when somebody starts to behave outside of that, they very quickly know this person’s not a fit and they are very quickly coached out because they’re upholding the sanctity of this organization. Again, it’s not just machinery. It is this organic organism. That’s the business and it’s people working together in a certain way, upholding a certain values towards a certain

Chris Tanke (25:57.309)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (26:12.635)
vision on a mission. When you bring that to life, man, that is powerful. And that’s the thing that really creates engagement in an organization. That’s the thing that people want to be a part of, something larger, not just going in and twisting a wrench, not just being a cog in a machinery, but being a human that is really part of a group who’s doing something larger, that’s something special. That’s powerful. When you create that, then you’re really starting to create a foundation for a legacy.

Chris Tanke (26:40.274)
Yeah, for sure. And that’s great. It’s something you can’t do, say, hey, folks, let’s have a retreat or two. And I want to let you know what I hope you continue on as you know, after I’m gone. No, this has to be part of the culture. So sort of like the way very much like the way that somebody is buying a systems and processes, say an outside investor wants to buy the practice and they’re buying the system and processes and not really buying you because you won’t be there.

Dr. Kevin Mays (27:09.553)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (27:10.173)
When the sale is finally made, whether it’s bought internally or externally, and the staff is still there, the sales staff is still there, unless you build in the values as part of, as you said, the culture, it’s not going to continue on either. It’s not going to be worth anything. Like the business wouldn’t be worth anything if you didn’t have systems and processes in place.

It’s in the moral sense, you have to have systems and processes and beliefs in place also. Otherwise that will certainly not outlive you. So that means that it’s going to take some work. It’s going to take some time. It’s going to take some consistency. And I think just a lot of business owners maybe don’t think about that. Don’t think about the expense involved.

with basically passing on yourself to the next gen of the business. That’s a big commitment.

Dr. Kevin Mays (28:17.607)
Yeah, well I think of it more than an expense, an investment. If you really want it to happen, they’ll think of it as an expense and therefore don’t do it. But the thing is, the values are already there. They just don’t see it. It’s in how they show up every day. Having some objective outside source who can see and articulate and help them codify these things is so profound. To be able to say this is the thing that makes us different.

This is the spirit of the founder. This is how they show up what they think is important and this is how we perpetuate that. I’ve seen organizations that get taken over by investment, know, investment capital comes in and buys it and they often I’ve watched when they finger they focus singularly on the on the bottom line and disregard the values and what do they do? They erode the whole culture and they

Chris Tanke (29:08.584)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (29:14.875)
flip the business, they make a lot of money, but then they end up flipping it and the business doesn’t exist. It just falls apart over time. And there are case studies of great leaders who would go into businesses, venture capitalists go in, buy it, of erode the culture by eliminating a lot of staff, increasing the responsibilities, disregarding what the values are. They would look great for the

for the shareholders and then they would leave and go to the next business and then the business would promptly fall apart, a house of cards because they weren’t upholding the real vitality, the things that need to be in place to create that vitality and that is the humans. When you look at the human spirit and you create that and evoke that and nurture that, it’s amazing what businesses can do.

Chris Tanke (29:44.168)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (30:07.772)
Yeah. You know, it’s so easy to be short-sighted that way, isn’t it? You know, you know, we, we, we just, we just want to make sure that we can prove that this purchase was profitable and even more profitable the way we restructured and we organized. And again, you know, it may be a lot of folks that are involved with that. They don’t care. They’ll move on to the next one. But, you know, if you want to talk about return on investment, you don’t do that. Right.

Dr. Kevin Mays (30:12.165)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (30:37.054)
You you you respect what you purchase you respect the the history of it and the values of it and and the people and the teams and the processes and long term it’ll pay more. Of course you have to hold it long term and a lot of capitalists aren’t interested in that but long term it’s it’s it’s really a silly thing to I would propose to purchase something try to make it as streamlined as possible cut out 40 percent of the staff.

Dr. Kevin Mays (30:38.503)
you

Chris Tanke (31:05.662)
Have some really good quarterly earnings if you’re so fortunate and then move on because that That business is not going to be viable Nearly the way it was because you’ve gutted it

Dr. Kevin Mays (31:18.577)
Well, this is the short term nature of humanity, right? We’re not really designed, we are designed to see the immediate threat. We’re in the Savannah, we’re looking for the tiger. We don’t know, we don’t have the ability as baked in to see the long term threats. And so when we start to erode businesses that uphold our community,

We’re not helping the world in any way. So it’s good for the ego, me, my. Okay, I have deeper pockets, but at some point it’s an abstract number in a bank account that has no impact on your life whatsoever. It just astounds me watching NFL players and their contracts and how they’re trying to get $47 million as opposed to $45 million a year. That’s great, but that’s beyond what a human needs. So now it just becomes about ego.

Chris Tanke (32:14.599)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (32:15.885)
And how do you not make it about ego, but actually make it about legacy? And they’re two very different things. If you want the wing of the hospital named after you, is it about you or the wing of the hospital? It’s like making it about ego is not the path towards wisdom. It’s not the path towards satisfaction. It’s not the path towards happiness. It’s a, it’s a hollow shell. How do you really transcend that?

Chris Tanke (32:23.549)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (32:29.723)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (32:36.974)
Right. That’s right.

That’s right.

Dr. Kevin Mays (32:44.753)
to make it about legacy, make it about community, making it about making the world better and making your family better and more secure. It’s a hard, it’s a hard.

Chris Tanke (32:56.496)
And by the way, I would jump in right now and interrupt and say, this is just really good business if you’re thinking this way. That’s the irony of this. This is good, profitable business if you think in terms of legacy, not just profits. If you think in terms of people, not just product.

Dr. Kevin Mays (33:09.784)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (33:20.471)
and just in terms of health, creating a healthy business is good business sense. But it’s easy to get on the slippery slope where we lose sight of that and we just want to grab for the profit. Grab as much profit as we can into some abstract bank account where the number changes and we feel better about ourselves and we’re not creating a healthy business. And if we’re not creating a healthy business, that’s not good.

Chris Tanke (33:36.7)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Tanke (33:44.027)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Mays (33:50.087)
as the sense.

Chris Tanke (33:50.798)
For sure. Well Kevin, thank you so much for this time today with us. We sure appreciate that. We’re going to have contact information again for Kevin and May’s leadership as well in our show notes. So we would encourage you to kick the tires of what Kevin can do and who knows? You guys might find a match and that’s terrific.

Very much appreciate you, Kevin. And it was great to highlight kind of how you think. And some of you listening are going to say, wow, I like the way he thinks. Pick up the phone. Give him a call. Before we leave, Kevin, any closing remarks here for us today in this idea of

Dr. Kevin Mays (34:33.127)
Full circle, full circle. I love it as we’re thinking about creating a healthy organization or not. Recognize, if you have scarcity in your state of mind, that’s the world you’re gonna live in. You’re gonna create an environment of fear, of regret, of all these emotions that you don’t like. Just understand that when you create and move through the world generously, you’re gonna live in an abundance world. It all starts with how you think.

Be very vigilant and diligent as a business owner. Pay attention to what your thought process is. Create a healthy business, healthy family, healthy life. That is, in my mind, that’s the path to success. So it is such a treat to talk with you again. I love these conversations and I appreciate it wildly. So thank you so much and good luck on your path to greater health, your wealth, and across your life.