Estate Planning for Blended Familes w/Haans Mulder of Cunningham Dalman, PC

Chris Tanke (00:00)
Estate planning for blended families. Now that’s an important conversation to have. Today I’m privileged to have on our podcast Hans Mulder of Cunningham-Dalman here in West Michigan. Hans has a great deal of experience in this area and in addition to his law degree holds a master in sciences and taxation, an MBA, and is a certified financial planner. I know you’re going to really appreciate the topics we discussed as we just scratched the surface.

on what you need to be thinking about if you are involved with a blended

Chris Tanke (01:23)
Welcome back to Navigated Abundance. I’m Chris Tankey. On today’s podcast, I’m delighted to have Haans Mulder of Cunningham-Dalman here in Western Michigan, Attorneys at Law. We’re be talking about a topic that I think a lot of you are really going to want to pay attention to, and that is estate planning for blended families. Estate planning for blended

families. There are lot of considerations to consider if you’re involved with a second or third marriage or what might be the case, especially if there are children involved. Haans wrote an article on this very topic here in January of this year and I read it and I said, not only do I know Haans on a personal level, I know that that article will be really helpful to people. So I took him out to lunch and paid for the whole thing and convinced him to come on.

and share with us a little bit how he would coach folks if they’re facing blended families and trying to figure out their estate plan. So thank you so much counselor for joining with us today.

Haans Mulder (02:26)
Thanks, Chris. Appreciate the opportunity to help.

Chris Tanke (02:29)
there could be, I don’t know, 20 or 30 volumes written on this topic and we only have 30 minutes or so. So I thought I’d kind of separate our conversation by raising the need and then answering the need, the challenge, and then the solutions. So I’m going to jump into this right now. The challenge is, and I’m quoting from your article,

blended families almost always have more complicated dynamics in, especially if there are children on one or both sides. So let’s talk about the challenge, maybe even bring up some things that people might not even be considering if they find themselves in a blended family situation and they’re trying to figure out how their estate plan is going to unfold. How would you just begin to advise people about some things to think about?

Haans Mulder (03:17)
Yeah, Chris, as you said, blended families are inherently complicated. I think really when you get down to what’s going on, there are really two families that are coming together, right? You have…

you know, one family that’s existed and now because of the marriage or the relationship, now there are two families that are coming together. So you’ve got issues with relationships that we’ll talk a lot about, right? And then also issues with resources. So those are really kind of the two buckets that I find they’re challenging ⁓ issues that come up, but also hopefully solutions that we can provide.

And I’ll just start with, if that’s right, one issue that I see that is, that would come up if I’m pretty early on in advising a client through a blended family. And it’s actually kind of an emerging issue in that some clients are, rather than getting married in a legal way, are choosing to have a covenant marriage. So they’re getting married with their pastor or priest.

but not legally. And sometimes they’re doing that by virtue of they don’t want to complicate their lives legally more so due to the nature of a legal marriage. So I’ve been seeing that more and more over the last number of years, and we can talk about that in more depth.

That’s an issue that sometimes I find clients will go down that path of, let’s be in relationship together. Let’s do it in a contractual way and obviously a faith and spiritual way, but not from a legal standpoint.

Chris Tanke (04:54)
Now that’s something I didn’t even think we’d be covering. See folks, this is why you have to tune in. Some of you are that’s in your you’re in that situation. And that’s a very valuable thing to consider. I’m thinking more in line of although I do want to come back to that. The proverbial gee whiz, you know, I built my estate, I’m going to get married. The spouse, my spouse has, has children, I have children. How do we handle this? Does does the the funds?

follow the history, the bloodline, the children, or is, know, we’ve all heard stories of where it actually didn’t and the one that had the assets passed and things were split equally between their kids and the children of the surviving spouse and that really wasn’t the intent. They wanted to make some provision, but most of their stuff they wanted to go to their kids. But again, they didn’t pay attention.

to ⁓ making provision for that. I mean, that’s like probably the classic example of a blended family problem for sure. But I am really curious. Let me come back to the spiritual marriage. Are the laws significantly different in that situation? does this become like a common law situation maybe even sooner if there’s that kind of a covenant made that can be proven?

Haans Mulder (06:10)
Yeah, so unlike other states, Michigan does not have common law marriage. So a couple that is together but not legally doesn’t raise the risk of being characterized as married. And the differences are quite a few, but just to hit on the of the top ones that I see. One is that

the marriage will bring certain requirements that if you have in a state plan or as we’re talking about, you know, issues like these where somebody has a trust, they have a will, if you haven’t addressed the rights of your spouse. So in other words, you just think, I think to kind of do your point a little bit ago, you’re just going to kind of have your state plan and then that plays out the way it was before.

before the relationship, meaning everything goes to your kids. That will not be the case when you’re married because in Michigan, like a lot of states, they assume or wanna protect your spouse from being left out of your estate plan and being disinherited. there are certain rights by virtue of inheritance and allowances that a surviving spouse has. So inherently there are things that when you get married,

Chris Tanke (07:10)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (07:21)
you’ve got to address or really should address with your estate plan to say, how are assets going to be going to my spouse? Or if not, you need that spouse to waive those rights. I tend to see with my practice blended families coming together in retirement. And at that point,

They hopefully don’t have health issues, but they’re more at risk, right, of health issues that may lead to expensive care somewhere, assisted living or nursing home. And one of the probably the most complicated issues I see when clients are married and especially when it’s a blended family here is that if one of them needs care in a facility and they start looking at whether

Medicaid benefits could be applied for and approved, that marriage is going to require all the assets of the couple.

Chris Tanke (08:10)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (08:18)
So both the spouse who needs those assets, but also his or her husband or wife, and in doing so, all of what maybe that couple intended to keep separate, now they’re in a position where Medicaid requires those assets to be looked at and treated together. And with the cost of nursing home care, you know.

probably the $12,000 to $13,000 plus a month, that gives some clients pause to try to think through how do we navigate a scenario that we may face if we’re married and we have our assets now considered together.

Chris Tanke (09:04)
So it’s a living estate problem. Right? the right. Exactly right. But at a cop it it it it it the consequences are quite similar, right? Again, if if if the assets most of the assets are on one side, and, you know, my spouse, the one that didn’t have as many assets, he or she goes into care. And I love them and we’re

Haans Mulder (09:07)
That’s great. Yeah, you choose how you want it.

Chris Tanke (09:26)
Spending $150,000 a year or whatever 250,000 a year for a really nice place. That’s fine. Uh, but in the end there’s going to be less to give to your kids, which is part of the deal. Have you thought through that? Have you discussed that? Right. Uh, and if you’ve discussed it, um, have you made your wishes known and have you codified them by some legal work? Right. Because otherwise it’s just a well intentioned. Um, and these are the kinds of things that you just have to talk about.

And there are no right and wrong answers. They’re just your answers. But you have to think about a lot of scenarios here that would affect the fact that, you know, you’ve got a second start here and there are new dynamics for sure.

Haans Mulder (10:10)
there are definitely situations that I’ve seen where…

you know, as you I think pointed out at the beginning of the podcast, you know, people don’t plan, but even when they do, how it plays out and creates complications. So one issue that I’ve seen is it’s very common to have the assets go to the surviving spouse, right? That’s just the nature of when we’re married, we want that to happen. And I’d say,

absent either assets with very.

high net worths, right? Who can say, you know, I’m comfortable leaving X amount to my spouse and trust, and then the other assets can go to go to my kids. A lot of clients really need to, by virtue of their resources, leave everything to their surviving spouse. But as that happens, you know, setting it up in such a way that it’s used as they both intended, and then also it’s eventually left to who they all agreed it would be left

So one issue that I’ve unfortunately seen some significant challenges is that surviving spouse all of sudden reverts back to maybe life patterns or financial decisions that they had before they were married. And the kids of that deceased spouse now see what they perceive to be their future inheritance being diminished at a much faster pace.

than if their dad or mom were living. So, how those assets are passed along, is that spouse the sole one in charge of spending those assets? Maybe as the sole trustee, I’m sure we’ll talk more about that. But then on the flip side, I’ve also seen situations where…

Chris Tanke (11:36)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (11:55)
client said, okay, if my wife survives, she’s going to be a co-trustee with my son. And those relationships weren’t healthy.

And so when he passed and she survived, it just became a very, unfortunately, toxic relationship in terms of how she wanted to move ahead and then how her son felt was appropriate.

So that can be unfortunately a real minefield, if you will, for people to navigate. then you’ve got, which I’m sure we’ll get into more later, but you’ve got the nature of, if assets are left to that spouse, what ability do they have to direct them in a different way than their deceased spouse thought, right?

the idea of kind of how is an estate plan locked in where it’s going to go to the same people, this couple originally planned or is it different?

Chris Tanke (13:00)
as you’re talking this through, I’m thinking, anything that you can do while you’re alive to make your intentions pretty solid, as solid as you can, you’re doing your spouse, you’re doing your beneficiaries a tremendous favor. Because if they if, again, with Haans, your illustration, you know, if we’ve got the sun,

of the person who passed at a disagreement with the surviving spouse or is concerned about the surviving spouse throwing money off the train to her children, this creates a problem. this is where trust work and thinking through maybe even independent trustees or whatever that case might be to speak with counsel that you have.

and to make sure that they understand the dynamics you’re looking for and what you’d like to have accomplished and see if you can’t get some of that written down through trust work, make the intentions known, make it as airtight as you can so that your wishes, I’m gonna say, will mostly be realized. They’re not always realized, but they’ll mostly be realized that way. So some of the common solutions that you…

you brought to this in your article, Haans, was trust work, the idea of doing a joint trust, two individual trusts, and the proverbial prenup marital arrangements. So let’s let’s jump in. Do you want to talk about joint trust first, how that might solve some of these problems ahead of time as we’re discussing? Or do you want to talk about the two trusts?

Haans Mulder (14:29)
Yeah, why don’t we talk about the joint trust? That is oftentimes what I’ll talk with clients first about.

Chris Tanke (14:34)
Alright, so here we are. We’re jumping into the situation, Mr. and Mrs. Smith. And we’ve got some interesting family dynamics. In general, how would you coach us if we’re thinking about how to solve for some of these things before the need arises? In other words, while we’re both in here in agreement, or frankly, gee whiz, you might, you might have one of the spouse say, I can’t be in agreement here. But it’s my money. And this is how I want to do it. Right? So

How do you coach using joint trusts?

Haans Mulder (15:04)
Yeah, so a joint trust can be very helpful for the family to, number one, keep the assets out of probate quarter. And probate, think, is an issue that really all clients are thinking about. But I think it’s especially important to blended families because if assets go through probate, the law is going to require that all of the

interested parties, which can often entail kids that don’t get along or may have difficult relationships. They get a lot of disclosure and information and frankly opportunities to maybe

raise issues and really make the process much harder than it would be. So I think by its nature, a joint trust is a really helpful way to make sure that we can keep things out of probate and then ideally avoid just the inherent sort of questions, conflicts and issues like that that come up when all of sudden court is involved with it. So that’s oftentimes where I’m kind of starting my

my counseling with clients.

We then talk about the nature of a joint trust around the idea that they’re both setting it up, they’re both gonna benefit from it, and it wouldn’t necessarily require that they commingle their assets right away. have a lot of clients who maybe it’s even like the home and the husband or wife’s name, and then it maybe goes to the trust at the owner’s death, or they keep bank accounts.

in their own name and then maybe have the trust as the beneficiary. So it’s not so much about like commingling assets right from the beginning, but I think it’s more about the nature of wanting to keep things as simple as they can. So not introducing multiple trusts, but then also the idea that if one of the spouses passes,

Chris Tanke (16:46)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (16:59)
You don’t have to have all the assets, but likely all or most of all the assets stay in trust for that surviving spouse and do so in a way that may not involve having to get a…

a tax ID number, filing a tax return, things that for some people it makes sense to have because of their resources. But for most people, we try not to introduce more complexity and additional responsibilities unless it makes sense. So a joint trust can really continue on for that surviving spouse now using his or her social security number and not add

add a lot. But I would say probably one of the most fundamental issues to kind of talk through and think through with clients is the idea that if one of them passes, or even frankly maybe is disabled,

a joint trust has to speak to how the trust can be changed, if at all. And that, I think you were alluded to a little bit ago, is really kind of a difficult issue because number one, think clients don’t want to think that their spouse is going to do something that is contrary to their marriage and their agreement.

Chris Tanke (18:06)
Hmm.

you

Haans Mulder (18:14)
But I would say it could be either that surviving spouse all of a sudden meets someone new and that new relationship can put a lot of pressure and stress on,

Chris Tanke (18:22)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (18:27)
We want to do all these fun things. I’ve got now kids that need financial support. You’ve got resources. How are those resources now? Can we use those to benefit us? Can they use those to benefit our kids? So that and then how the assets could end up going to someone else.

Chris Tanke (18:49)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (18:50)
A joint trust can be left completely amendable and revocable. Like that would be the nature of like a first marriage joint trust. I have a couple of times over 26 years, completely locked in and made a irrevocable trust or made a joint trust irrevocable at the first spouse’s death.

But I would say that’s definitely not my preference because it, you know, being a planner and trying to help clients with situations that I’m sure you see it in your practice too, the situations that you thought of in 2026 are not the ones that exist in.

2030 or 2035. So having some flexibility to change the trust but do so in a way that keeps everybody accountable ideally is most helpful. And so what I’ve what I’ve found to be a helpful tool to do that is

that surviving spouse can change the trust, but with the consent of the successor trustees. So, you know, those trustees are likely going to be people that represent each side of the family. Like, you know, the husband has a child oftentimes who’s a trustee.

Chris Tanke (20:01)
Hmm.

Haans Mulder (20:12)
that wife will have a child who is also maybe a trustee together. So the surviving spouse is really then realizing, okay, I’ve given up some autonomy here, right? I can’t change this trust, but I can go to…

children, whether it’s my child and a stepchild who ideally you trust in general, but also you feel like it’s going to look out for the whole of the blended families and allow changes that make sense and not allow things that were contrary to the relationship. that can be a good way in my experience of kind blending the need to change the trust if need be, but not doing it a way that’s going to circumvent

Chris Tanke (20:46)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (20:56)
the intent of what they start with.

Chris Tanke (20:59)
Let me just Throw this out there if if you’re in a blended family situation and there might be disagreement between you and your spouse You have some concerns about Your spouse’s kids or whatever Is the truth the to trust solution a little more airtight

Can you solve for some of these things if you have your own trust and your assets are there and you’re saying here, here’s how it will be doled out in the end if I’m no longer here. Does that give you more control in that kind of a situation? Because I imagine having a joint trust, there’s a lot of co-mingling of opinions even in all of that, depending how it’s written. But if you have your own trust, you can be a little more proactive to say, no, no, no, this is exactly how I want it to work.

Is that generally true or not?

Haans Mulder (21:47)
I do think each spouse having their own trust definitely gives each more control over the outcome in terms of where the assets go and who they benefit. having separate trusts can be a really beneficial way to look at it. The separate trusts come though with

still some inherent challenges a little bit. ⁓ One is that

you know, if a spouse passes away, I think you’ve brought it up a couple times too, is that you have to have a trustee of that trust. you know, you could say, you I wanna maybe leave half of my assets to my wife, half of my assets to my kids, but the nature of the portion left to, you know, to my wife, if she’s the sole trustee,

There is legal accountability there, but maybe not practical accountability in terms of making sure that those assets are going to actually be used consistent with the terms of the trust. So having even separate trusts.

does leave open the possibility that if, know, assuming they’re going to be left or some portion is going to be left to a surviving spouse, what’s kind of the nature of how that trust works, who’s in charge of it and making sure that the monies in that trust actually get used in a way that, you know, that’s consistent with the terms of it. So, yeah, a separate trust can kind of lock in and prevent that trust from being changed in the future.

But I would say the other somewhat practical issues around like whatever’s left to that surviving spouse and trust, still having to think through how to best give that spouse what he or she needs, but realizing that there’s gotta be thought given to kind of how that’s done, who’s in charge of it, and who’s involved with it. it’s gonna kind of…

be done consistent with what the spouse’s trust said from the beginning.

Chris Tanke (23:45)
You know, we just bought a Volvo. Never had a Volvo before. Nice car. And you know, the one thing you recognize after you write the big check is that I have to have a really good service relationship with the dealership or an independent dealer that really knows Volvos because these cars can be temperamental and expensive to fix.

So it’s, you know, it’s not about having the car. I have to make sure how am I going to make sure that, you know, I’m living with this car that it does what I want it to do. I think this is very much like what you’re describing. It’s lovely that you have a beautifully written trust. Okay. That’s fine. But if you’re not here, ⁓ who’s servicing it, who’s going to make sure that what you intend to have happen is going to happen. And, ⁓ you know, God forbid there’s a challenge to it.

You know, how can you make sure that those that ⁓ are trying to change it don’t have nearly opportunity for success because it was written well and there’s a team of people, vis-a-vis trustees, that are overseeing it that are really, you know, are…

have fidelity to you. just think that these things can unwind just because they’re on paper doesn’t mean that they’re going to be clean. So think in terms of who’s going to serve as the Volvo. Is that fair?

Haans Mulder (25:01)
Yeah, that’s a great analogy. I think that you don’t want to really just kind of walk away from a lawyer’s office or a car dealership thinking, right, you’ve got title, everything’s going to be fine because there are going to be issues that come up and who do you have there to be able to either help you through that process or to…

Chris Tanke (25:10)
Yeah.

Haans Mulder (25:22)
I don’t think we oftentimes in the state age like to think of accountability, but how is there going to be accountability and assurance around what you’ve done? So it’s carried out well. Maybe somebody is going to check in with you on your Volvo to see, hey, have you serviced it as we told you?

Chris Tanke (25:41)
Absolutely right. ⁓ Just a trust is a living breathing document. Unless there’s an irrevocable trust, but right. So so yeah, it’s really only as good as the team of people that are around you, I would say. Because, well, we’ve, we’ve all seen bad things happen to good people that have trusts that are outdated or that weren’t well written or well represented. Just just part of the deal.

So I think obviously the first step is you’re talking it over. Hopefully you can come to agreement with your spouse saying, okay, here’s your assets, here are my assets. How much do we commingle for, for beneficiary sake? How much do we use for, you know, medical expenses? Should we be saving the cottage that my grandfather built with his bare hands for my kids only and having these kinds of conversations. But then once you have that, you need to codify them in some trust work joint or.

or independent and and make it as tight as you can. And if I hope you can, as a couple, you can see what everybody’s doing. So there’s there’s no misunderstanding. And then you have good people to service that or represent you when it comes time to beat it out, because controlling assets from the grave, if that’s your intent is it can be expensive and can be can be problematic. It just is not always simple.

If your trust just kind of empties out within a year or whatever, that’s fine. But you have to think in terms of what are you trying to accomplish? What’s the end game? And who is going to be there to make sure you get over the goal line you want to go when you’re no longer here? That’s very important. So it’s not just about buying the Volvo, right? Let’s talk about prenups, which people just have a negative opinion on. I used to have a real negative opinion on them.

and I have been converted. Talk about prenups and how that might be another tool in your tool chest if you’re trying to figure out blended families and succession and estate wishes through a blended family situation.

Haans Mulder (27:37)
Yeah, we in part tried to make it a little bit easier for clients and that we oftentimes refer to them now as like a premarital agreement. I think that, yeah, right. the names we give to things, right, immediately turn them off.

Chris Tanke (27:46)
Well, that sounds better.

It’s not a prenup.

It’s a pre-demarital agreement. well, we’re gonna agree. That’s I like it

Haans Mulder (27:56)
That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. And I find the vast majority of my clients who are doing pre-marital agreements or pre-nuptial agreements are really doing that to really kind of lock in what their intentions are with their estate plan. know, we’ve talked about the idea of if you have a joint trust, if you have separate trusts, what do you intend to happen with your assets?

Chris Tanke (27:58)
Okay

Haans Mulder (28:20)
One issue I’ll mention now, and we can get into it more depth, is especially the nature of what about the house that they live in? Because almost inevitably, you’re going to have a couple that’s going from either two houses to one, or one house that the couple, or that one person lived in.

Chris Tanke (28:34)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (28:39)
has to benefit two people. So the agreement really encapsulates and addresses all the estate planning issues in addition to like a trust and wills, powers of attorney, but it makes it a contract, right? Something that you both have to agree to and abide by. it really kind of puts it in writing in an enforceable way.

But then the other thing that’s always the most awkward issue, if this marriage, especially at the point in time that clients are getting married doesn’t work out, then those assets that they’re bringing in the marriage, there’s a high chance that a court is gonna enforce the agreement and leave those separate assets his or her own.

I think I mentioned this a little bit ago, that most clients who are working with on these issues are either at retirement or in retirement. So they don’t have the possibility of working and kind of reestablishing their financial position if they go through a divorce. So they really wanna just be good stewards of what they have, right? And make sure either for themselves or for their kids, they’re not in a situation where, you know,

Chris Tanke (29:41)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (29:54)
they felt called to get married, but then that marriage does not work. It goes through a divorce in five years and now all of sudden they’re left with half of what they came into the marriage with. then what are they gonna do at age 75 or that late in life? So I think people probably have an inappropriate kind of expectation of

You know, they really believe clearly that this marriage is going to work, but they also, you know, don’t have, you know, maybe this unrealistic expectation. There’s no risk around it. And, you know, they can, you know, just start all over financially and kind of regain that, you know, those assets that they had before. So I think that helps maybe make it a little bit more palatable or easier for them to realize an agreement like this is helpful late in life.

Chris Tanke (30:46)
Yeah, and I think the more you communicate, the better off you’re going to be. And this is just a formal way of communicating. Of course, that will come about after a lot of discussion privately. Then you sit down with counsel and saying, here’s our situation. Here’s what we’re thinking. Are we thinking right if we want it to go this way? And counsel might come up with another solution that’s even better. That’s great. I think the bottom line to all of this would be as

for any situation, but in particular, if you’re in a blended family, you don’t want to go to lawyer.com and have an 800 number relationship with somebody out there. It just does not work. You need somebody that has put on the grounds that you can establish a rapport with that can hear you, that you are being heard, that is listening to what you’re saying.

didn’t just get their law degree. And they have experience that can talk you through some of these things because it’s complicated. We are just scratching the surface on all of this. And hopefully you’re picking up that every situation is a bit different. you’re going to have to sit out and talk it through with somebody that has the experience and the breadth of understanding to give you advice. So that would be my.

recommendation is, ⁓ you know, don’t go cheap on 1-800-Lawyer. Deal with somebody that you can actually sit down with, have a cup of coffee with, that you respect and appreciate and spend some money and do it right. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Words were never truer than in dealing with estate planning for blended families. Would you not agree, counselor?

Is that a shameless plug for dealing with a local mom and pop attorney?

Haans Mulder (32:26)
couldn’t agree more. mean, I think.

These issues are really, complicated and, you know, doing something, you know, either on your own or with someone who’s not experienced with it is really fraught with, you know, with problems. So I think, you know, ideally someone has had a relationship with an estate planning attorney who they trust, but if they don’t, it’s important to, you know, to have somebody who, you know, can help them with those issues.

Chris Tanke (32:31)
Mm-hmm.

Haans Mulder (32:57)
but also somebody who has experience and can help navigate all of what we’ve talked about today where, you you, yeah, you’ve just got it, you’re layering on a whole different set of issues now by virtue of the blended family that you need somebody to advise you on, whether it’s legal, you know, some of these issues.

crossover into tax issues, they get into long-term care. So having somebody that can really walk you through. And my perspective is really to do this in a way that, obviously I’m representing my client, but also kinda honors the relationship and what they wanna accomplish. not a kinda look, we’re gonna advocate for every last dollar and try to make

this an adversarial process, we want to make it, to the extent it can be, more collaborative, but realizing that there are complicated issues that sometimes are going to benefit one person or another. you just, to your point, have good communication and hopefully the parties can work through everything in a way that makes it more likely that this relationship is going to work well and the plan is going to be carried out.

Chris Tanke (34:05)
Yeah, that’s so true. And it’s, I would imagine that you do a lot of marital counseling right there in your office. And I think that is that’s what wise counsel will do. And you know, sometimes somebody needs to hear, hey, this is a hill you can die on, but I don’t think it’s worth it. You know, maybe should lighten up on that. You know, it’s difficult to control Isaac say, the term I use is control assets from the grave. Anyway, it’s very difficult to do it.

⁓ but, you know, maybe there’s some things that you can like give up now and compromise on and yet have the majority of what you want to do, you know, come through maybe, maybe the surviving spouse and their kids, the way this is written doesn’t inherit anything, as far as the corpus. But while you’re alive, he’s going to do after you’re gone, he’s going to do really well. Right.

by just living off the dividends and the interest and the royalties or whatever. And in the end, they get whatever, 20 % of, I don’t know. You can build it any way you want, but it does start with communication and it all starts with a mediator in some ways. If you’re not on the same page, just sit down with a counsel and talk through some of these things so that you can give your best effort to a successful handoff. Cause in the end, know, none of us stay around forever, right?

Haans Mulder (35:22)
Sorry.

Chris Tanke (35:23)
I like it. Do you have any closing remarks, comments, or anything for us, Haans? I think this has been really good to scratch the surface. anything that you said, boy, we really should talk about that just for a little bit. Where do we get it all?

Haans Mulder (35:36)
You know, I think we have covered some really important issues and I think to kind of what we’ve talked before about, you wanna work with somebody that you trust and has the expertise, you know, with these issues. And I appreciate you, you know, really raising these issues because it’s not just a legal issue, right? It’s very much issues that involve other advisors like yourself, a CPA, so, you know,

bringing in those other advisors on these issues so that all of us can really think through what’s going to be the best outcome for the client from a legal, financial investment, and tax perspective, I think is really important. I think we say this a lot, but it is, I think, really important here that

by being as proactive as you can. I think that that is gonna be a much better result than bringing these issues up when all of a sudden there are broken relationships or fighting between the couple. You’re…

very unlikely to kind of work through anything that’s going to be helpful in the you do this too late in the process. So think being proactive is key and hopefully all of what you’ve spoken about with being a good communicator, almost thinking of this as…

There’s going to be some sort of mediation or exchange of what everybody’s going to agree on. Doing that at a time where everybody’s comfortable, there’s a high level of trust is just going to yield the best result.

Chris Tanke (37:16)
for sure. When I was in seminary, I was taught that a mist in the pulpit ends up being a fog in the pews. So if I’m going to communicate a message on Sunday morning, it better be clear, concise, easy to understand, powerful. I can’t pontificate on things that aren’t crystal. Otherwise, people aren’t going to stand anything that I’m saying. And again, if you can sit down.

and craft your sermon right with your counsel and have agreement on it. It stands a much better chance of your intentions being fulfilled versus if you’re no longer here, one spouse is left and everybody’s trying to patch it up from here, trying to figure out what you meant or well, that’s what he said that maybe that’s not even what he meant and all that kind of stuff. No, no, no, no, no. Get it down. Crystal as clear as you can. Why you’re alive, right?

Deal with folks that not only if they sell you the Volvo can serve as the Volvo too. I think that would be my advice As a novice in this area Haans, thank you so much for giving us some of your valuable time today. Really appreciate you my friend If people want to contact you are you interested in gaining new clients or not?

Haans Mulder (38:26)
Yeah, I’d be glad to help folks. I’m sure like you share too, one of the joys of this practice is helping people and helping new people as they have issues come up.

appreciate the education you’re doing and getting, yeah, getting really the issues out there that people may not be aware of or if they are learning something hopefully that they can use in their lives.

Chris Tanke (38:51)
thank you very much, folks. We just want you not to hesitate to procrastinate. We want you to move. And if there’s any way that this sparks some interest in this, please run with it. Because manana, manana, manana is disaster in a blended family, that’s for sure. So again, ⁓ thank you so much. Haans, we will put.

contact information up here and on the screen and also on our show notes for you if you want to get ahold of Haans and his team. But in the meantime, we appreciate you, my friend. Thank you so much. And folks, I just want to encourage you, although sometimes these conversations can be difficult, as we say all the time, your family is worth it.