Demystifying Private Equity with Mike Palm of Charter Capital Partners

Strategic Financial Group (00:00)
Today’s podcast is with Mike Palm, partner and managing director of Charter Capital. Mike brings over 20 years of experience in finance and investing to his role as partner. He oversees the firm’s day-to-day operations and serves on the investment committee. Mike leverages his deep private equity background to source structure and close investments while also providing strategic guidance to portfolio companies as they grow after joining their portfolio.

Before joining Charter Capital, Mike was vice president at Dry House Private Equity in Chicago, and he was also an associate at Beacon Petty O’Keeffe & Company, a middle market private equity firm focused on healthcare services. he’s a native of Grand Rapids and now lives in East Grand Rapids with his wife, two children and their relatively reliable retriever, Ella.

Chris Tanke (01:34)
Welcome back to navigating abundance. This is Chris Tanke and I am so excited to have with us as a guest, Mike Palm of charter capital right in the grand Rapids area. And, ⁓ we have a mutual professional acquaintances and that’s how we got to know Mike over lunch a month or so ago.

And it really exciting to see what they’ve built out over there. And the topic of today is really to understand a little bit more about private equity and how that might take place within a portfolio. if you are blessed to have abundance, ⁓ a lot of folks consider this as a portion of their portfolio. We’re to talk about the ins and outs of that sort of like a crash or course. So, ⁓ Mike, you’ll be gentle with us when we talk about that, right?

Mike Palm (02:18)
Yes, there’s so much to cover and it’s effectively an entire asset class. So I mean, there’s way too much to ever cover in a quick podcast, but thank you very much for having me. It’s great to be on and happy to answer questions. This is kind of a mystifying area of the investing space. They’re always happy to talk.

Chris Tanke (02:36)
For sure. So thank you. We look forward to you getting us up to speed a little bit on it. But first, let’s talk about charter capital. There is an advisory branch, so to speak, and there’s an investment branch. Could you juxtapose those two things? What does charter capital offer people?

Mike Palm (02:49)
Yeah,

So charter capital overall is a merchant bank. We’re based in Grand Rapids, Michigan, have been around since 1989. The merchant bank name comes from the fact that it’s both an investment bank that does buy side sell side &A advisory work, but then also invest capital as well. Merchant banking models go back, you know, literally hundreds of years. They’re not are maybe as popular this in this day and age, but there’s a number of firms that this will operate in this kind of part of the space are.

Our M &A advisory side of the house goes to market as charter capital partners. They specialize in mostly sell side M &A advisory work, but then also do some buy side, usually enterprise values of companies who are $20 to $100 million. And they do that across the country. Even though we’re based in Grand Rapids and we have a number of clients around the state of Michigan or just relatively local to us, we still do have clients. In fact, I believe they’re attempting to get a deal that’s closing tomorrow.

So that’s geography is not as much of a focus point over there. On the investing side, we go to market as charter growth capital. Charter growth capital is a mezzanine debt and equity investor, again, based in Grand Rapids, Michigan, but we try to focus around the Great Lakes States. So we call the Great Lakes States anywhere from on the West side, Minnesota to Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, of course, Ohio, Pennsylvania, then upstate New York. And so.

We try to focus our investments around those areas because when we have businesses that are close to us, we can be most helpful to those businesses to help them grow. And that firm is, and that strategy again, is a mezzanine debt and equity investing strategy. So we lead with mezzanine debt, which is subordinated debt. If you think about it, you, is it as if you would have say a second mortgage on your house or something. You’ve got your senior, your first position mortgage, and then you’d have a second mortgage, for instance, that although that’s not as common in a house.

it is very common in the realm of corporate finance. So that’s what we said.

Chris Tanke (04:46)
All right. And does Charter Capital, do they ⁓ like have access to financing, access to resources? Do they connect or are they just advising on that part?

Mike Palm (04:57)
So they will access financing sources, but predominantly they’re working with the client, which is usually a business or a family that owns a business and they’re looking to go to market. Or they at least want to understand what the market could look like if they were to try to sell the business or recapitalize the business. Or also very possibly someone’s reached out to them. ⁓ ABC Private Equity, like many of them do, has called or emailed, ⁓ usually pretty relentlessly.

borderline annoyingly to say, hey, you know, Joe, Jane, Phil, Roberta, do you want to sell your company? And if they start lobbing numbers, I mean, it is the American way to say, well, let’s let’s talk some turkey. So if there is someone that’s doing their organization or a group, if there’s some curiosity, you know, talking to an investment banker and advisors is the first step. We’ll take a look at your financials, come up with some valuation ideas.

Chris Tanke (05:26)
Yes.

Mike Palm (05:51)
for simplicity, this is all free. All that advising on the front end is just understanding the fit and there’s a willingness when they go to market or try to get a deal done.

Chris Tanke (06:01)
Yeah, well, very good. Very good. All right, but you of course, are on the side that takes a lot more gray matter, the investment side, all that research that you’re doing it whatnot, describe to us a little bit about charter growth fund, what it might offer to people. Kind of take us through the paces of that.

Mike Palm (06:21)
Yes. So Chartered Growth Capital, what it offers to people can be different types of people too, predominantly. We have our limited partners who are the investors that invest in the fund. And so those are, to your point earlier about people with abundance or high net worth investors, but also institutions, also banks, even large government, know, investors and whatnot as well. And so that’s the LP, the limited partner side of the business. What also it offers would be what it offers to management teams, to

individuals trying to buy businesses and then of course the companies themselves and their owners group, you know, as an investor in the business. And so it depends kind of which, what kind of shoes, you know, an individual might be sitting in. But when we work with, say, if you were going out to go and buy a business, we would partner up with you. You would go and try to write an LOI to sign that business up to be buying it at some specific purchase price. You might go to a bank to get some financing.

You might go to some friends and family to find some other equity financing. And then we kind of bridge that gap in the middle. And so we try to be a little bit, we will do a mix of debt and equity. So not just that Mez debt, that second lean debt that I mentioned before, but then also we’ll write a more at risk check in the equity side of things. And what we bring to your original point really is we try to bring more than just capital, but we try to bring resources beyond that because we invest in a lot of smaller businesses that are going through the same types of growing pains.

And so as we learn different ways about how to help with ERP systems or hiring salespeople or expanding geographically or upgrading the management team, we’re here to lend our kind of lessons and experience to the team.

Chris Tanke (07:58)
And those, ⁓ those lessons and experiences you’re lending, that like leading up to the sale? So somebody’s buying a more, perfect process or perfect system, or do you actually, after the deal is done, you can still, because you’re involved with this a little bit, or there’s still some skin in the game, so to speak, and in a second position or something, you’re involved with, ⁓ just making sure that, ⁓ that the business that was purchased, continues to be really viable. You’re you.

as much as they would want. want to be coaching them or involved with that. Is that true?

Mike Palm (08:28)
Yes, true. So usually on the equity side, if we have an equity investment, we’ll have a board seat. So, uh, and that usually helps depending on where the business was before. In most cases, they don’t necessarily have an official board of directors, but you know, we start to bring it outside capital providers and you know, the business changes hands. They’re a board is formalized. This is just kind of part of that professionalization. Sometimes it occurs when a business may be family owned, founder owned, but when it goes on to either another generation that wants to bring in a

let’s say capital to grow, or it’s bought by a third party individual or from an investment firm and we’re all backing them to do it. There’s kind of ⁓ a meeting of the minds and resources altogether that help put a board together to consider different options.

Chris Tanke (09:13)
Yeah, that’s a probably a pretty difficult transition for a founder who has been the, you know, the grand poobah, the Pope of the whole thing. And now all of a sudden, because other capital comes in, of course, with that capital comes accountability and expectations and matrixes and all sorts of things that you have to be meeting now. I imagine that that takes some, ⁓ a transition Tory thought for folks that are involved with that sort of thing.

Mike Palm (09:38)
Yeah,

it can if you’re a founder owner. Sometimes, there’s a reason a lot of times founders or families go to consider exit options is one, they’re not sure what it’s worth. And then they find out, oh, my gosh, really, I didn’t realize that that’s what I can get in the marketplace. But also because they start to maybe even get just a little fatigued where they brought the business through the Great Recession of 15 years ago, or they brought it through COVID, or they…

Or it’s just time to say, you know what, maybe we should figure something else out. Oftentimes it’s not a shoo-in that offspring or children are going to dive right into the family business. They might be doing other things. Maybe they went to a different type of schooling or they moved to a different part of the country. sometimes people realize that maybe they have to look at other options.

Chris Tanke (10:25)
Yeah, exactly right. All right. So I’m, ⁓ I’m somebody’s been blessed with, with resources. I’m pretty familiar with, ⁓ you know, commercial or, ⁓ democratic investing with mutual funds, ETF stocks, bonds, those sorts of things. and I’ve been wondering about PE described to me what that is and, ⁓ and the value that it might have in my portfolio, actually to delve into a little of it.

Mike Palm (10:51)
Yeah, so private equity, again, I’m not a wealth manager, but, you know, just my understanding of it, to your point, there’s mutual funds, ETFs and advisors and different, all sorts of products out there. In fact, the Wall Street seems to be, we have the ability to create endless streams of products. mean, you can, anything out there could be a financial product in some sort of way. So what private equity is, private equity is essentially separate from a lot of

investments that have a public angle to it, whether it’s a public stock directly, or it’s a portfolio of public stocks in a mutual fund or an ETF, or some other unique strategy in a public security sense, whether it’s a public bond or not necessarily just a public equity. This is private. So this is private money that is not liquid. This is probably the biggest, most obvious thing, but private money that’s invested in businesses around the country.

is one of those things that simply put, and I don’t have the data here to back all this up, but directionally, there’s less public companies today than there probably were 30 years ago. I think that is relatively a fact. And so with the complication of becoming a public company, you know, we are seeing the IPO window open a little bit here right now. We’re getting seen some IPOs come out there, but you know, back in the eighties or nineties, if you had a business of ⁓ relatively decent size, it didn’t take much for it to go public.

It could actually float on the New York Stock Exchange or the NASDAQ or some of the exchanges. In this day and age, a lot of times what we see is, I’m over kind of glossing over broad strokes of the industry, but effectively private equity as these private equity funds have allocated capital in different fund vehicles, they actually might buy the company. So in a way, ABC company that’s been in West Michigan since, say the 60s or 70s that maybe could have

could go public, you know, back in the nineties, in this day and age, they might end up getting bought by a private equity firm. That’s their route onward. They’re off ramp as the family or the founders, you said, do something different or enable a way to help enable the next generation to come through. That’s what private equity effectively is. And private equity, depending on how you want to define it, can mean a lot of different things. It could be any sort of private asset. It could be private real estate. It could be private infrastructure. It could be a private company.

even venture capital itself, course, in earlier stage companies is a form of private equity. So there’s lots of private credit as well as what we do. So there’s lots of different ways to kind of, I guess, know, skin the cat, so to speak.

Chris Tanke (13:19)
So then, do you end up, like, like bundling almost like a real estate investment trust, a private equity trust or whatever. And you have an offering and you mentioned as far as illiquidity and stuff. Is that, is that how that works? You, you, ⁓ you’ll put together a package, say here’s, here’s a prospectus on this. Here’s what we anticipate in this. Here’s the, you know, the, category that we’re investing in. Here’s the timeline and those sorts of things.

Mike Palm (13:42)
Directionally, yes, but without the clarity of what we’re investing in, which is what terrifies some people. Effectively, so if we went out in our fund, we have $111 million fund, but to raise the fund, we went out to the market to then raise the capital. And maybe not speak about our offer, I’ll just speak on a fund in general. Let’s just call it $100 million fund. But a normal private equity fund, they’ll go out, they’ll raise $100 million of private limited partner commitments.

If Chris is signing on as an LP, you’re signing on, there’s probably an investor minimum. It might be $250,000 per person, or it might be $100,000. It could be $50,000. It could be a million dollars. It’s arranged and it’s set by the manager. The manager is the general partner, the GP. again, the investor is the limited partner of the LP. And you’re signing on for your, say, half a million dollar commitment over the next five years as part of that $100 million fund.

they will draw down your $500,000 and make investments in the companies. You’re backing them because the team and who they are, you’re backing the strategy that they’re gonna go after. They’re gonna tell you very explicitly, we’re gonna invest in these kinds of businesses. We’re gonna invest in startup businesses that are trying to come up with some new technology in the agriculture space. If it’s a venture fund that is targeting agriculture things. We’re gonna invest in metal bending and manufacturing businesses.

that have two million in EBITDA or something. If it’s a private equity fund, they’re investing in say buyouts that are more of a middle-of-the-fair private equity offering. In knowing what they’re gonna go invest in, that’s what they say they’re gonna do and then they go off and actually do it. And so that’s where the concept of a blind pool comes into play. A mutual fund, you know what the fund is in. Now that mix can change of course while you’re invested in it, but it’s not a completely empty blind pool.

And so there’s reporting and whatnot, I’m probably getting further on with the question, but directionally, that’s how the raised from your point goes. It’s drawn down over five years. After five years, can’t, even if I’ve only invested $400,000 over your $500,000, and again, it’s just done in pro rata slices, I cannot call the money after five years. And then we have five more years to exit the portfolio. It’s a fund that has a 10 year life, in usual terms.

Chris Tanke (15:54)
Okay.

Alright, so if someone says gee whiz, know Mike that sounds like the wild wild west I understand at least I Understand the concept of how mutual funds are overseen and securities acts and whatnot But you guys, know yikes. How do I know that my PE guy is not Ponzi scheming me? How does that work?

Mike Palm (16:17)
That’s a good way to put it. That’s the most drastic adverse consequence ever. And so the biggest way is all funds are audited. I mean, our fund is audited by BDO. All of our funds are audited by ironically BDO. So they get a quick commercial here. So having audits and being able to check the math is really the most important thing. mean, I never thought of it this way or answer this question this way, but

you know, for the fund that you’re invested in, you know, we drew down 10 % of your capital. And so, you know, we, know, that you’ve got $50,000 on your capital account, you know, that 10 % draw that’s in there. And then you can see that in your capital account statement at the end of the year. And then you have the audit to back check to say, okay, yeah, these are audited. They audit all the financials and everything is there as it should be. The company is in the valuation. So there’s a lot of rigid protocols around these, these investment pools.

So it’s not the wild wild west.

Chris Tanke (17:12)
All right. And so.

If somebody is I mean the advantage of this is a new asset class, which is basically Non publicly traded smaller companies. I guess we might be able to say if we can go that far with it That are perhaps more nimble You’re in this situation they’re they’re more local so essentially there might be more knowledge or understanding of it or the environment they’re in But there there is you know, you can certainly invest in it in a

I a smaller company if you want that’s not publicly traded, but at least this way, you know, it’s bundled by people that have done their due diligence, laying off a timeline and, and expectations. Is that pretty accurate? The, I guess the advantage would be in other words, if you want to be in the space of a non publicly traded company, you know, probably many of which are even family owned or have been, is that

Is that a good way to like it’s like a mutual fund for a non public traded company so to speak night again that is somebody’s going to hold me to task for that and say well that’s not what it is and I know I know but.

Mike Palm (18:10)
Yeah,

I know. What you’re saying directionally is correct. mean, that is…

Chris Tanke (18:14)
It’s a basket

of, it’s not a mutual fund, ladies and gentlemen, it’s a basket of non-publicly traded funds that have been vetted out to whatever extent your group has done that. So you can participate in that, spread out some of the risk by, I guess, diversification, at least in holding, if not class, and participate in some of that.

Mike Palm (18:33)
Yes,

and so you could participate in the growth of that business down the street that just went out and launched, built a whole new manufacturing facility because they’re growing like a hand over fist. And the upside shows that there is upside there. There’s an arbitrage between what a traded valuation might be for a private company versus a public company. And public companies usually are valued at a higher multiple, whether it’s PE, which is the public way to say it,

same EBITDA multiple that we would kind of look at on the private side. So there is an arbitrage to what could happen there if the company went public, is the most glaring obvious leap that could be made. Our businesses that we invest in are small enough that usually not gonna be going public, but the concept is still there. There’s upside, there’s definitely value to be found, alpha for lack of better term, and it actually is proven out. I mean, I don’t have my hands on any studies right now, but…

You know, over the course of time, it can happen flow, but different benchmarks for the public and private markets will show the private market definitely cannot perform the public’s in a variety of different ways over time. and that’s part of why it can be attractive to if you’ve got the right opportunities and the right funds.

Chris Tanke (19:45)
And with the philosophy that you all follow, what would you say would be the average amount of funds? One fund, what’s the average amount of companies that are in that fund that you’ve bundled?

Mike Palm (19:55)
⁓ I would say usually anywhere from probably 10 to 20 companies. The reason I gave you a big range there is because sometimes if it’s a private equity fund, it’s going to be more concentrated maybe on say call it, know, 10 companies, 10 to 15 companies. If it’s a private credit and mezz fund like we are, we might be more like 15 to 20 companies. If it’s a venture fund, it’s VC checks, smaller companies, smaller checks, making more investments.

might be in the 15 to 20, 25 range. So there’s kind of a range to how, and it’s a function of concentration. It’s a function of how they’re diversified.

Chris Tanke (20:32)
All right, so I’m I’m Joe investor here and I want to sell all my vo and throw it into private equity and you of course would say don’t do that. So what is How does someone consider? Or what I should say what are some of the considerations that should be met before someone like ventures into this I mean Is there a ratio is there? I mean

How does one make an intelligent decision and not just a gut level decision?

Mike Palm (21:01)
I’m not the ratio person to ask that. I mean, you can look at things where there have been like the Yale method where their endowment famously increased the amount of allocation they had to private equity back in the 90s and it served them incredibly well. And then another number of endowments in university followed suit. And so I don’t have an exact what that ratio is. The 60-40 or…

What do they say? Your age in bonds or something? Obviously, private equity for the most part should be on the equity side of that mix versus the bond mix, unless it’s in sort of a, maybe it’s a private credit fund that has mostly senior debt in it and it’s secured. It’s not gonna return as well, but it actually might beat out some of the the bond funds that are out there that are on the public side.

Chris Tanke (21:27)
Yeah, right, yeah.

Mike Palm (21:52)
So it’s definitely part of that equity mix. It also is a function of kind of liquidity. So I mean, these are longer term funds. I mean, we will go fundraise and talk to some people and they will simply say, I’m getting up there in years and I just don’t think that having a 10 year fund is something that I wanna be jumping into right now. So it’s basically that time horizon as well as just kind of the drawdown path. I mean, if you’re making a million dollar commitment, you should be comfortable.

with excess cash checks coming out of $100,000, know, for the next, at least, I’m sorry, $200,000 over the next five years to meet that commitment. I don’t know I answered that question as directly, but listen to the ratio.

Chris Tanke (22:29)
Well, you know,

we are we are certainly skirting around compliance with this entire conversation. So ladies and gentlemen, we are talking in great generalities here on purpose, but we’re trying to we’re trying to bring some I’m trying to bring some clarity for what’s known to what’s unknown and try to make some comparisons in general. So. OK, so you guys are our.

The strength of course is looking at regional companies that you can get in your car and go talk to. There are PE firms of course that will be international probably.

And there’s probably pros and cons to either approach, I would expect. But how many folks are involved with the investment team over there right now?

Mike Palm (23:09)
Our side or over where’s over there? yeah, so we are a team of just a handful of individuals. share overall, Charles got roughly called 20 employees. We have a handful of employees that we split between both sides of the house. So from a to your point compliance controller, know, our CFO business development marketing, just administrative kind of, you know, make sure the trains are in time around.

Chris Tanke (23:12)
Your side.

Mike Palm (23:34)
And then in the charter growth side, there’s four partners that sit on the investment committee, myself, my two partners, John and Hector, and then Mike Brown, who also runs the &A advisory side also sits on our investment committee. And then below that, we’ve got, there’s two vice presidents that basically make sure that we’ve got to handle all of the investments that we’re looking at. And then we’ve got ⁓ an associate and then an analyst that we’re her to. But we share some of those junior and associate resources we share between both the investment bank and the charter growth side.

Chris Tanke (24:03)
Okay, so in the investment side of this, as you’re putting together a new offering and you’re working on that, you know, it’s very difficult in the commercial space to sit down with the mutual fund managers and say, I’m thinking about investing, let’s have a conversation. It doesn’t work that way. Do they have access to you? ⁓ Okay, that’s a big difference, ladies and gentlemen, right there. So they could buy a cup of coffee and pick your brain and talk directly to

Mike Palm (24:20)
Absolutely.

Chris Tanke (24:30)
I guess the investment manager in the macro sense we’re talking about here. That’s not common in the commercial space, I would say.

Mike Palm (24:37)
If they’re

helping in the fund, I’ll pay, I’ll buy the car.

Chris Tanke (24:40)
Well there you go. I wish I’d have known that a month ago.

Mike Palm (24:42)
We’re

always surprised at how quiet sometimes our investors are. They get quarterly reports. They’re not as burdensome maybe as some public mutual fund reports where you’re not really sure what’s what. It’s pretty clear. The companies are very clearly stated in there. We show performance. We show our hopes, our thesis is, all these kinds of things. But to your point, some of them are West Michigan based businesses that you can see, feel, and touch and have an understanding of.

Chris Tanke (25:10)
Okay, very good. Well, this sounds, mean diversification is a lovely thing. There are a lot of ways to do it. But PE is certainly, again, an option for folks. A lot of people don’t realize it exists or haven’t wrapped their brain around how it might function. Is there, are there any other?

guess, resources or thoughts you might give us as somebody’s considering entering into P as part of their investment portfolio. is there anything you want to add to this conversation, ⁓ as far as bootcamp for PE?

Mike Palm (25:37)
I don’t

I think the most important thing that you look at would be when you’re talking to a private equity fund or a manager, a GP again, as you would say.

Chris Tanke (25:41)
can hear the angst.

Mike Palm (25:51)
would be what their strategy is. Again, is it a venture fund, a private equity fund, or doing buyout investing? Are they doing real estate investing? Are they just making loans, know, credit type investments? That’s the strategy piece. The next piece would be the team. Who is the team? Joe, Jane, Phil, and Roberta, do you know them? How do you know them? What is their background? How long have they worked together? Did they go to college together and work at a…

You know, I mean, have they been around each other for 10 years or longer, or did they just meet at a coffee shop down the street two months ago? Because you…

Chris Tanke (26:27)
and open up the back

of their trunk and said, hey, let’s do something. We could raise capital.

Mike Palm (26:30)
we should do something, right?

And you know, ambition is great, but you know, execution matters. And so that’s why the last would be track record is what is the track record of this team? Just like you look at, and I have no idea what I’m doing when I look at the public mutual funds and I’m tracking the, know, I’m like, I don’t know, this looks pretty good, but you should have an understanding for what the track record is. How have they performed at their, whether it’s at their previous firms or previous funds or that all as a team.

as how they performed in their earlier funds.

How do you feel? you have clients that reach out to you and talk to you about private equity or with a question mark of like, just, do I know? Or, know, Chris, what do you know about this? And how are those conversations that are happening more often?

Chris Tanke (27:18)
There is a mystery to it. We’ve had several conversations with some of our clients about it. But primarily not much. Most people are staying in that known quantity. And so that’s what I was discussing before. And I know you can’t advise on this, but depending on the size of your portfolio and what kind of a percentage you could put in something like this, again, it’s a diversification.

that is pretty much unavailable to you in in huge fund ETFs, etc, etc, because this is not publicly traded equity. And, and, and that that sliver could have a really powerful part within your portfolio. And, of course, you have to work with your advisor, your

professional teams, your CPAs, maybe even your attorneys as you have conversation if you have big bucks to invest in something like this. But it certainly is. And that’s what I was going to ask you, is that is this ⁓ a growing field? this becoming a more popular thing or is it still kind of a nuanced offering in the world of investing?

Mike Palm (28:24)
No, it’s definitely becoming more more popular. mean, we’re seeing it real time even before the last year or so with the asset class growing significantly, whether it’s real estate or private equity or venture or whatnot. And then now the concept that individuals might have access to their 401ks or IRAs to allocate into different private equity vehicles is a new thing as well. That’s really gonna bring a lot of assets into the asset class.

and see significant growth.

Chris Tanke (28:56)
Yeah, it certainly would have institutional investors are starting to knock on your door. would imagine that would be, that would be a boondoggle for PE. Yeah, for sure.

Mike Palm (29:05)
Yeah, and for better or worse, we will see how that works in the asset class because it will be a lot of capital that start flowing in. It really won’t impact us at Charter Growth. I we don’t have access to those huge conduits of capital that are set up to have to, again, your point, the compliance to run with the larger kind of allocators that are out there.

Chris Tanke (29:07)
Yes.

Mike Palm (29:26)
we will see what it does. But there’s definitely been more of a conversation and more interest in it that’s driving all this.

Chris Tanke (29:31)
Yeah, very good. Well, Mike, we’re going to be putting up some contact information, how folks get ahold of you and charter capital, either for the advisory part of this or the investing part of this. And ladies and gentlemen, they will pick up the phone if you call them. They really will. And they’re good folks over there. Any closing remarks that you might have for us at all or

Mike Palm (29:52)
No, I appreciate the time. Always happy to chat about this and to my earlier point, always trying to demystify private equity a little bit more every day.

Chris Tanke (30:02)
Yeah, well, that’s great. I imagine that’s a major part of what you do. People start kicking your tires. But don’t don’t be afraid of the opportunity, ladies and gentlemen, there could be, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know. So this is certainly a mainstream asset investment class, I would say at this point in time. And it gives you opportunities to connect with non publicly traded companies and do so.

Mike Palm (30:07)
It’s fair enough.

Chris Tanke (30:22)
in bundles rather than just onesie twosie so that that also gives you more diversification and stability I guess but yeah I I thank you very much mike this has been great thanks for letting me ask you some of these questions and peppering you with issues so I appreciate you very much

Strategic Financial Group (30:40)
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